August 23, 2007
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One Lie Spoils Many Truths
Sometimes it is easy to understand something by working backwards instead of forwards. Such seems to be the case with the Fall of Man. Yes, it seems pretty
straightforward in Genesis 3 but often we fail to understand where it
all leads in order to sense the importance of what happened in the
Garden. Let’s look at a passage in Romans…
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God
made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His
invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been
clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they
are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor
Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their
speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be
wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible
God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and
four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them
over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies
would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for
a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator,
who is blessed forever. Amen. Romans 1:18-25 (NASB)This passage is very rich in information to help us understand the
Fall. To say it simply, man denies God and everything about Him even
though God made everything evident to them they still choose to do
this. They wanted to be wise and became fools. Instead of believing
God, they chose to worship something that sounds a whole lot like
evolution here. God tells us that they exchanged the truth of God for
a lie and dishonored themselves. Keep these points in mind as we
“rewind” back in history to when Adam and Eve were still in the Garden
of Eden. While we are at it, we’ll grab some important information as
well.
The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He
placed the man whom He had formed. Out of the ground the LORD God
caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for
food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of
the knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:8-9 (NASB)Let’s note that God caused the trees that are pleasing to see and are
good for food are in the Garden with them. There are also two
particular trees that fit that description as well; the tree of life
and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet there was a problem
with one of them.
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden
you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely
die.” Genesis 2:16-17 (NASB)Now all these facts are important to the story of the Fall. Now let’s construct the scene as the scriptures tell us.
Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the
LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said,
‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” Genesis 3:1 (NASB)The serpent opens the dialog with a question that focuses the woman on
the forbidden fruit. The woman responds in a way that lets us know that
she knew about the prohibition but she’s added something to the rule… “not to touch it”… which was not
specifically said. The serpent responds to this by saying…
The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! For God knows
that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will
be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4-5 (NASB)The serpent says in effect… you will not die (a lie, Gen 2:17)… LIE #1,
God knows when you eat it your eyes will be opened (true, Gen 3:7)…
TRUTH #1, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. (true, Gen
3:22)… TRUTH #2. So for those inclined to use logic, let me put it in a
way that we can use in a more general fashion…
We have the proposal: LIE #1 + TRUTH #1 + TRUTH #2 = LIE - The proposition is a lie.Said another way, any lie added to any amount of truth is still a lie.
However, we are not done here. Let’s keep looking for some truth that’s still there for us.
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a
delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise,
she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with
her, and he ate. Genesis 3:6 (NASB)The tree was good for food… (true, Gen 2:8-9)… TRUTH #3. The tree was a
delight to the eyes… (true, Gen 2:8-9)… TRUTH #4. The tree was
desirable to make one wise… (lie, Gen 2:16-17)… LIE #1 as its
essentially the same point made by the serpent except from the woman’s
point of view. Now the serpent said nothing about the tree’s
characteristics.
Now we have the justification: TRUTH #3 + TRUTH #4 + LIE #1 = LIE - The justification is a lie.Why did I go into detail about all this? We have four true things that
God has said and we can verify it by reading the text. We have one lie
discoverable by the same method. Our first parents fell into sin by the
ONE LIE not the four truths.What can we glean from this? First, the man and woman had full
knowledge of God and the truth He told them. Second, there was a
proposition presented to them which contains one lie and more than one
thing that was true. Third, in full knowledge of what they knew they
chose to disregard the God of the universe to believe their own wisdom
in order to gain more wisdom and fell in the process.Now why might we suppose that God arranged the whole situation in the
Fall of Man right after the Creation account? Do you remember what we
read in Romans 1 above? Did you catch the fact that in both cases the
participants wanted to be wise? Its obvious now, isn’t it. It is the
same thing; only the names and particulars have changed. Both cases
did not believe what God had clearly said. God outlines the “start to
finish” decline of man into unthinkable depths of moral depravity in
the rest of Romans 1 to more exactly describe what we really could not
yet see would be the results of what Adam and Eve did to themselves
(and us) at that point.Now let’s consider some more “advanced God denial” that leads to the same thing.
What does this mean when somebody tells us that God’s word is
undependable concerning any matter especially with Creation? What does
it mean when other people tell us that the Bible contains poetry or
figurative language which dilutes or contradicts what the words themselves say clearly especially to those in the Creation account? Isn’t the
proposition to use any sort of method to change what God has clearly
said saying the very same thing as what the serpent said in the Garden
to our first parents? It certainly is. Isn’t the justification just
the same sort of thing that we do when we believe that and add more
truths to the situation to make the “truthful statements outweigh the
lie”? Yes, it is.You might say, “So Mr.Vee, what are you going to do with all the information science has discovered proving evolution?”
I would say this. I am older than many and younger than many. I have
heard all sorts of people say this or that proves evolution or
something very near that claim. The theories keep changing and we keep
learning what “really happened” again and again and sometimes it starts
getting embarrassing for “science” and the matter gets quickly covered
up. The biblical account hasn’t changed. As I read recently in the
Bible, “Its not the same to claim victory when one ‘puts on their
armor’ as when ‘they take it off’”. God has already said what He has
said. And the question, just like that set before Adam and Eve, is set
before us… everyday. Do we believe God and what He has said about
everything? Jesus said to the devil in the wilderness…
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD
ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”
Matthew 4:4 (NASB)He didn’t say some words… He said our lives depend on “every word of
God”. In essence, we must trust God’s truth verbatim. That’s no joke.
Mr.Vee
Comments (17)
Good quote from Matthew 4:4. It applies to Genesis 1 as much as to Romans. There’s also “the sum of Your Word is truth.” That also includes Genesis 1.
Christians need to decide who is Lord–is it Christ or Science (Baal)?
Amen. Brilliant post. I myself was growing weary. Well, not really… but I needed to change the subject for a few days while I prepare another salvo. Excellent post, though. You’re a great thinker and I love to read your stuff (even if I don’t comment nearly as often as you do
).
Thanks, soccerdad. I like your reference so well. I’m going to add it here…
The sum of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting. Psalms 119:160 (NASB)
The point being that God’s word has been around a lot longer than any of us and its not likely that we’ll find a way to “undo what God has said and done” by our own wisdom.
Hi, Professor. The Lord gets the credit. He’s the one who gave me the insight two/three days ago to share with you all. Thanks for the encouragement. I hear you about “weary” and know its really not that. You are getting ready for the “new stuff” coming. Between work and that, that’s why its been a few days between my last big post and this one. So enjoy getting out of the “vortex” for a bit and let the mind clear for the next “salvo”.
I’ve got another myself but it might be a day or two yet but who knows?
There’s also John 17: 17, “Your word is truth”.
Hi, SD. Now that’s a good one, too! (Hey, they’re all good, aren’t they?) Although I liked the play on the word “sum” that came with the other one given the “equations” above.
Now that first lie, would only be a lie if they had died in a 24 hour day, but God was talking about a 1000 year day. The devil knew they wouldn’t literally die in a 24 hour of time, I’m sure he knew a day to the lord was as a1000 years. Adam died 930 years into that 1000 year day, so Adam did literally die in the day he ate of the tree of good and evil.
Hi, Eddieray… I think you’ve got a point there but I’m not sure I’d take it completely the same way. Here’s what I’m thinking. They didn’t die in a 24 hour day so from that perspective, you are correct. However, its harder to explain why Seth died at 912 years, Jared died at 962 years, and Methuselah died at 969 years since they didn’t directly eat of it. So it might be better to say that the serpent used the near term appearance of truth to cover up the lie that it said. In fact, that is exactly how the world does it today.
Adam and Eve did die eventually but since they nor their children died very soon afterward, it is probably the reason why the antediluvian world sank into violence and continual evil, even in their thought life. They thought they got away with it so they sinned all the more. Again, we see this is happening today just the same way. Given that it took something like 1,657 years from Adam to the flood, we see that God is not in a rush to judge but eventually will. So we are not surprised that, even now, God has waited this long to extend mercy to mankind yet man sins all the more.
And what I’m about to say is probably the best thing about what you mentioned, it conclusively shows what abandoning God’s truth does to man and appears to be precisely the reason why we are told by Jesus that, at the time of His second coming, it will be like the days of Noah. In fact, these antediluvians are the “type” of the lost world during Christ’s second coming and the flood is the “type” of the judgment that comes to them from their rejection of God.
Eating of the tree of good and evil, enabled Adam to discern sin, without that ability, there was no sin. Adam passed that ability on to his son, and on down the line to us. So Seth, Jared, and Methuselah, they all ate of the tree of good and evil, when they judged good and evil, by the guidelines the tree taught Adam, and they also died in a1000 year day, which was the time God allotted mankind to live, after sin, 1000 years. After the flood he shortened life spans to 120, Gen.6:3. We die in our day which is only 70 years, plus10 years with good living. I believe we can REDEEM are time, a day at a time by not eating of the tree of good and evil, by not judging a person with it, so that day we don’t, is not counted in the 70 years, so it lengthens are day or life. So when God says you will die the day you eat of the tree of good and evil, means that is one day you have used up in your life, of a 70 year, day or life. So I think Methuselah, judged a person, each of the11,160 days in his life, of 969 years which took away from his day, or life, 31,360 day years, from a 1000. Every day we judge a person with the ten commandments, we die that day useing up one of our days in the 70 years we were given.
Hi, Eddieray… hmmm, interesting hypothesis. I love it when these sorts of questions come up since they often reveal some really interesting stuff that we too often take for granted or overlook.
I’ve actually been doing a study on the lifespans of man before and after the flood… actually, I have a really neat chart but I’m not sure how I’ll get it on Xanga yet. (Its been slowing down my posts a bit while I’m putting it together but its really good stuff.)
Anyway, if what you say is true, Lamech really was a “bad boy” (777 yrs) and the worst would have been Enoch who “walked with God and was not, for God took him” at only 365 yrs!!! I suppose anything is possible on that portion of it but its hard to make it stick logically.
Now as to 120 yrs… it seems that there might be two ways to look at this.
First, if we look at the lifespans of the patriarchs, most of them in Genesis 11 in the line of Shem we never see anything less that 203 before Abram (at 6 generations after Shem). I haven’t yet finished looking into every reference for this but I do see that by the time Moses dies, he’s 120 years old, 15 generations later (after Shem).
Second, Noah was 600 yrs old at the flood (Gen 7:6). He was 500 yrs old when he had Shem, Ham, and Japheth. (Gen 5:32) We also know that Shem was 100 when he had Arpachshad two years after the flood, making him about 98 or 99 at the time of the flood depending on where you are counting. If we leave a bit of time for the flood to occur, this verifies the two accounts of the Shem’s age. It wouldn’t seem so unreasonable to think that at 120 years before the flood God saw the sons of God and daughters of men doing what they were doing and then said this and then watched what was happening and it was only getting worse over the next 20 years. Yet when the countdown reaches about 100 years before the flood, Noah finds grace in the eyes of the Lord. He builds the ark over that time and then the flood comes at the appointed time.
If you’ll notice what I am telling you, there is something consistent. I am not trying to add ideas to the scripture that I cannot support, in the most simplest way. What I’ve found is that when I start putting more into the story than God has, it might make for a good story but it still makes it fiction. Since I’m not looking for “a fiction story” but “His story that’s true”, I keep looking for things that God has put into the text that explains what was really going on.
Here’s a principle we all need to write down… “Do not overlook the small phrases and clauses that God has placed in His Word for in them are explanations that are to be discovered only by the one who diligently seeks for Him since they aren’t always placed in the most obvious places.”
So my rule for these things is this. Let the text say what it says. If there are details about it that are important, these will be found nearby or elsewhere, usually in the same account… but we have to look for them and when we find them, they must “fit like a glove” and not be very hard to understand. Time after time, it turns out this way and we find the answers “hidden right before our eyes”. I’ve even answered so many questions this way when people challenge me on the “toughies” and they are dumbfounded that the Bible clearly answers their questions without being hard to understand. God has anticipated everything. It is really mind boggling to see how well He has done this. Mr.Vee
Correction… Nahor, the grandfather of Abram, was 148 years old. It looks like all the generations after Abram were under 200 yrs… Terah, Nahor’s son, Abram’s father, at 205 yrs old was the last, it would seem to live over 200 yrs. Sorry I missed that. Mr.Vee
I have studied the life span thing before and wanted to add my 2 cents. The 120 years thing was in reference to how long humanity had until the flood, not the life expectancy man would eventually come to find as his limit. My new ESV study bible has a nice chart of life spans with generation on the x axis and years on the y axis. It is interesting, but in and of itself it testifies to climate change more than anything else as far as I can tell.
Hi, FKIProfessor… That seems to be the case (120 years left before the flood).
I’m glad you have the chart. Some reference materials simply don’t tell you that. I am doing this one “by hand” on Visio Pro and using the “dimensioning features” to make sure the “scale” is correct on the lifespans so that the “generational overlap” is obvious. Having built it myself, I’m likely to remember it better. Its pretty interesting when one finds out Noah was still alive when Abram comes on the scene. Shem also lives well into Jacob’s lifespan.
Including Shem, only three more generations would live over 400 year lifespans. Starting w/Peleg the lifespans drop in length by 200 years or so. While Nahor, the 7th from Shem, only lives 148 years, Terah’s lifespan pops back over 200 again. After Abraham, it appears that 200 year lifespans are over.
Question for you… What’s the best way to graphically present data on Xanga? Or at least reference to it. What I’ve figured out so far is not as good as I’d like for what I’d like to do. Mr.Vee
Gen. 5:32 say Noah 500 years old, he begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth, 120 years would make the flood come after 620 years, but it came when Noah was 600. So the 120 doesn’t seem to me to be the time left for mankind to live before the flood. If you were going to read 6:3 that way you would have to read verse 4 to all happen in 120 years, and I believe it happen over a longer period of time. Enoch didn’t die, wouldn’t be very good to use him for a example, as he walk with God which means he had to agree with God to do that Amos 3:3. I have tried to figure out how we can redeem are time and get more years, this is the only way that I could see it happening, short of eating of the tree of life, and that another story.
A question regarding Eve’s apparent addition in Gen. 3:3 to God’s command:
Since the conversation Eve has with the serpent takes place before the Fall (immediately before it, but before nonetheless), and sin is not yet in the world, is it right for us to assume that Eve really added words to God’s prohibition? For Eve to misrepresent what God had instructed her to do would be sinful, would it not? I think we have two options here: 1) Somehow determine that it must not be sinful to add to or alter the words of God, or 2) assume that God actually did include “neither shall ye touch it” in his initial prohibition, and Moses simply did not record that part of it in Gen. 2:17.
I’ve heard preachers before speak of this as though Eve did the “typical woman thing” and read her own interpretation into what God actually said, but I’m not convinced that we can reconcile that idea with the fact that she made that statement before sin was a reality.
Jesus said, if you have done it in your heart you have already sinned, disobedience’s is sin. I bet Adam decided in his heart he was going to eat before he ate, if one knows to do right and doesn’t do it that is sin. I believe Adam done acts, that to us would measure sin, but before they eat of the tree of good and evil, they had no way of knowing if they had sinned or not. I believe sin enter into the world only because they had a way to measure it, Paul said he wouldn’t know sin, but by the law. I don’t believe mans nature change after he ate, they had the same nature as us, but know way to measure evil or good.
Hi, Coffee…
I think the matter is quite simple. Neither Adam or Eve had fallen at that point but they were close (this is instructive in itself). Eve did what we all have done. We’ve added some “nice little rule” to what God has actually said and revealed that 1) she had done that and 2) that she had trouble thinking about it already. This gave the serpent the signal that she was weak and to “go ahead” and tempt her. Isn’t that how it works? We aren’t tempted by things we aren’t preoccupied with, are we? James 1:13-16. Actually, our “nice little rules” often get us into trouble even now. By these, we unwittingly confess what we are tempted by. It is best to stay with exactly what God had said. Now, she could simply have been trying to “obey” and her “structural support” to help her “do” that was not enough to counteract the desire in her heart to do it. God gave us such an early example why those things do not work. In fact, we really shouldn’t go any farther or any less than the Word of God tells us.
Hi, Eddieray… You are really close on this one. See the response above. Since man was deemed by God as “very good” (as was the rest of creation), it wouldn’t be appropriate to assign sin to him that early. The scriptures say that by one man sin came into the world. That one man being Adam. II Timothy 2:12 Yet James tells us how it all really works. Notice verse 15… lust is “conceived” which means it wasn’t there before. That lust brings forth “sin” which brings death. Now it should be noted that “lust” is not just having the connotations we give it today. It is the “desire” that drives us to do what we should not.