July 17, 2007

  • Hi! We will be taking a short break from the study “Discovering God’s
    Character” as I’ve been watching FKIProfessor’s site closely and have
    taken some interest in the subject matter currently being discussed.
    However, I will not be taking the same approach since what I will be
    presenting will in itself be different yet was prompted by the material
    on his site. It will be presented in two parts. The first part is to
    help us  understand the predicament we are in and in the second part to
    find God’s utterly brilliant solution for it. And indeed we can find
    something to learn about God’s character as well!



    Creation & Fine Wine:  Part 1- Eternal Gopher Holes

    Picture this scene… you have a pesky gopher in your backyard. You’ve
    twisted your ankle several times in all the new tunnels he’s dug
    underneath your yard and if that isn’t enough, your grass and plants
    are suffering. Now you’ve tried all the gimmicks at the home and garden
    center to run them off and still your unwelcome residents do not leave.
    In fact, the pesky critter seems to know you can’t get rid of him and
    loves to come peek out at you and if he could give you a “raspberry”,
    you know he would. You become sufficiently provoked that you get
    yourself a mallet and go out to teach this obnoxious thing a lesson. So
    you wait for it to pop its head out and down comes the mallet to an
    empty hole. He is much too quick yet you won’t give up that easily. He
    pops out his head again and whack! You miss again. Over and over again,
    you find yourself outmatched by the gopher.

    Regardless of whether you know how to get rid of gophers, it is not
    hard to understand the thrust behind the story and know that it doesn’t
    always have to revolve around “gophers”. Many times, we run into people
    or even ideologies that are the same way.

    When relating this to all sorts of debates, whether scientific or
    religious, or whatever, the matter comes down to our silly story about “gophers”. Take the
    theory of evolution, for instance. Those who claim a “scientific
    stance” earnestly hope that by saying this or that they will get the
    upper hand and silence those pesky “creationists”.  They try and try
    and they don’t go away. They attempt to discredit them and mock them
    and do all sorts of things and nothing works.

    Now let’s look at it from the other end of it.  The “creationists” see
    those pesky “evolutionists” making all these reasons why the world
    could not be created by God and tell us of all these “discoveries” that
    prove the theory of evolution is conclusively true. They take up the argument from God’s point of view yet just like the
    folks above, the “creationists” get out their mallets and go for the
    gopher holes of the evolutionists and they, too, miss every time. We know this because they never seem to go away.

    If that isn’t enough, we’ve got folks who are in the middle on this and
    can’t see why both camps can’t bring the two stories together. They
    usually lean one way or another and would like to really see them
    coalesce into “one story” yet just as the “gopher whackers” above, that
    isn’t going to happen and they get their mallets and go for the gopher
    holes and they, too, miss every time.

    By now, you should have a picture in your mind of three or four camps
    on this debate now, literally a whole crowd of “gopher whackers" with
    their trusty mallets taking their swings. Isn’t the scene ridiculous?
    Not only is it ridiculous but such a debate could last millennia and perhaps an eternity... and they do and they would if it were left to that.

    One good thing about such a scene in real life is that it creates
    either job security for the participants or endless preoccupation on
    the matter for those who just like debate. However, no one's effort will
    ever be decisive because the other “camp” races down their “paradigm tunnel
    deep in the ground” to pop up their next point and are always scurrying
    about but never able to come to the knowledge of what is really true.  Sometimes we'd even wonder if the
    truth were ever found, none of these participants would be happy since
    all the job security and preoccupation would then be gone and they’d
    have to find another matter to whack gophers over.

    Such is life. If one would step back and look at it all, one would
    realize that everything we hold dear is by faith. To take the earlier topic, it is by faith that the evolutionists take
    their stand. They’ve never observed the actual event so they really
    don’t know how it happened and never will. They can only take what they see now and
    extrapolate backward and trust in their numbers and estimates. However,
    the concept that they have of the creation of things is limited to what they want to believe about it. It has nothing to do with facts. Its all about faith. In addition, they cannot go beyond their own “gopher tunnels”
    and cannot see things beyond.  They have faith in their system of
    thinking even with its limitations.

    Similarly, the creationists take their stand on faith as well and to
    that they are probably the most honest about it. They take what the
    Bible literally says and stick to what it says on faith. A most
    commendable thing, yet it is still faith. Yet disturbingly, their
    gopher tunnels have given them the same type of blind spots that the
    evolutionists have. They cannot see things beyond what they believe about it. Its just the way things work.

    Even those who would like to reconcile have a faith of their own that
    the two stories will somehow reconcile. If it weren’t true that these
    folks have their own “gopher tunnels”, one would think these might be
    the most sensible.

    Now let’s not leave out the cynics who toss it all out and don’t want
    to have anything to do with it. That too is by faith. Their faith is in
    their reasoning that everyone is screwed up and they throw it all out
    as rubbish. Now that is a "gopher tunnel" in its own right.

    Yet is this all bad?  In our quest to understand our world where we’ve
    made the mantra that all hypotheses must be proven to become fact, we
    have taken the stand that is totally untenable with reason. Instead, there are
    just some things that cannot be proven with reason simply because we
    won’t have all the information necessary to make the proof and even if
    it could be, the very fact that we are often sequestered in our “gopher
    tunnels”, this limits our perspective and we couldn’t see anything else
    if we tried.

    So let take a look at it from God’s perspective. He knows the truth…
    all of it. He has no “gopher tunnels” to restrict His vision or alter
    His perception. That’s why He knows absolute truth and is the
    embodiment of it. Now we’ve seen from this ridiculous illustration what
    man is like. He sees his own set of “relative truths” as the governing
    aspect of his paradigm (gopher tunnel). The only hope we have is to get some objective input on this and whether we like it or not, the only one that can do this is God because He is not restricted by this at all.

    I hope that in the next
    installment you will see some light at the end of your tunnel on this
    matter and it won’t be the next “pop up hole”. It will be the light of
    truth that shows you that with God “all things are possible.” We will see God's input on the creation event in a most unusual place. And yes,
    you will find out what the importance of fine wine is as well.  Mr.Vee

Comments (8)

  • I fit, I guess in the 3rd group, I have settled  it in my mind, that there was a creation, and would rather spend my time discussing, something that we can grow in.   I think maybe the earth may have been harvested before, so there is no telling what the evolutionist might dig up.   I have verses, but for the last few days, have been able to put enough words together to find the set of verses, I need to quote all of them, so to make a full picture.  I'll bet you have been there before.

    You said "They cannot see things beyond what they believe about it."   This is so true and I think you were saying, that you can only have faith in what you believe, which is also true. 

  • Hi, Eddieray...

    Then I think you'll like the next installment. Have you every had an "Ah, ha!" moment? This was one of them for me. It was also answered prayer, too. I just wanted to know the answer so I wouldn't get hung up on it all the time. I also had a fellow at church who didn't want to believe that the Lord made the world in six days and I think it was getting in the way of our relationship. I didn't care so much because I was weary of all the argument on the subject over the years (I wasn't arguing but it was just listening to it all) but I think it was a big thing for him. Yet the answer is right there on the pages of the Bible, staring us in the face and we've not been able to see it. The answer is much like His creative acts in Genesis, fully complete, nothing left out, and declared good by God Himself. Best of all, its so simple to understand. He is just awesome... that's all I can say. Mr.Vee

  • I agree that the pop-science "gopher-whacking" that goes on is ridiculous.  I also think that your analogy only covers the pop-science case.  I think that the issue does matter and that it's important to discuss the various historical issues rationally.  I have tried to understand both sides, having initially been an evolutionist and only becoming a creationist after I had become a Christian.  Books like Del Ratsch's Battle of the Beginnings help us see both sides.  I think that, philosophically speaking, evolution lacks the slightest credibility.  Even if I hypothetically were to abandon my Christian faith (may it never be), I would still not believe in evolution.

  • The Apostles' Creed begins with "I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth."  The beginning of this creed is about God as Creator.  If we fail to get this right, the rest, which relies upon this, will lack a necessary foundation.  Correct understanding of God as Creator and Judge is necessary before we can appreciate Him as Redeemer.  There's also the slippery slope problem that follows from this with the credibility of scripture being a bigger and bigger problem which we see historically in theology.

    So maybe you won't be able to help solve the origins problem, but please don't call all those involved in seriously looking at it "gophers."

  • Hi, soccerdadforlife... I'm making fun of the whole process, not the people. Quite actually, the people were the "gopher whackers" and the "gophers" were the "aggravating arguments" and sometime the people who would seem to become the target for someone's ire. These arguments would keep popping up all the time and one could never get rid of them.
    I never criticise an honest search for truth... never. That's counterproductive.

    BTW, I won't solve the origins problem. God already has. That's the next post to come in a few minutes. Mr.Vee

  • Funny as it is, and I was crying I was laughing so hard, I am a gopher whacker. I admit it. I enjoy debate. I have the hope that something I say will matter to someone, perhaps someone in the middle. I'm not interested in hitting anyone with a mallet, but I would like to do as the Great Commission commands and make disciples. The matter of creation is important, not because I said so, but because God said so. He went to the trouble of revealing some tantilizing details about our origin, even when God Himself etched the 10 commandments with His own hand (see commandment #4). No, the arguing doesn't save, but hopefully it builds up the foundation and heals some of the blindness of those with a measure of faith already. Does it sound too much like self defense here? LOL. Maybe. My wife is of an opinion much closer to your own - shut up and believe. The only good religion is to take care of widows and orphans. Well, perhaps I should shut up. But I can't. So, whack me if you like.

  • Hi, FKIProfessor! I was ROFLOL while I was writing it. Yes, you got what I meant. That's ok some of my best friends are "gopher whackers"! I engage in the sport now and then myself. I wanted for us to laugh about an absolutely ridiculous scene that's much like it gets when a debate gets so serious that folks take it personally and want to destroy each other's reputation and it also led into the insight of the following post. You are exactly right on the thrust and intent of our efforts. Actually, I don't hold to "shut up and believe" although at times, its better to trust the Lord on things we don't understand until He lets us in on it. This is what I believe... its one of my favorite verses...

    The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. II Timothy 2:24-26 (NASB)

    When one is prompted by the Lord to engage, do so. Its all right. He's given us the right way to approach it so we've got what we need. So have fun and make disciples! Mr.Vee

  • Thanks. I was reading 2 Tim last night. An outstanding letter, perhaps my favorite now of all Paul's letters, at least on par with Romans and Thess.

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